What follows is an interview with three voices. I only started asking questions at the end; the conversation â€” and introduction, for that matter â€” Â began with Angelo Spoto at &Now Books. Â The interview takes place with Gretchen E. Henderson, a writer (now based out of Boston) who published two books with different presses, almost concurrently. Both of Henderson’s books ask and explore artistic questions. Her first book,Â Galerie de DifformitÃ© (&Now Books/Lake Forest College Press), operates like a Â kind of text-based exhibition space with pages. Her second book, On Marvellous Things Heard, was published by my press, The Green Lantern, and examines the relationship between language and music. Â
Deforming Forms with Gretchen E. Henderson (an interview)
When I first read Gretchen E. Hendersonâ€™sÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©, I approached it like Iâ€™ve always approached novels; start on page one, continue to page two, then page three, etc. But even before page sixteen, the book called me out on my traditional approach. â€œDo not read straight through this catalogue from start to finish!â€ it said or, it seemed, yelled at me. At this point, I realizedÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â is nothing like any novel Iâ€™ve ever read. Itâ€™s a chose your own adventure story meets poetry meets the essay meets art catalog, all mixed up behind the cover of what appears to be a novel.Â GalerieÂ is comprised of â€œExhibitsâ€ created by â€œSubscribersâ€ (who, on theÂ GalerieÂ website, posted deformed versions of Hendersonâ€™s writing) as well as Hendersonâ€™s own poetry, prose, and essays.Â GalerieÂ focuses on deformity, and a deformed version of Danteâ€™s Beatrice is the readersâ€™ guide. (OR, ask â€œTell me aboutÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©â€)
Angela Spoto:Â What was the genesis ofÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©? Why did you want to write the novel in such an unusual way?
Gretchen Henderson:Â The novel began as an essay, which did not want to be an essay.(1)
AS:Â What is an exhibit?
GH:Â An â€œExhibitâ€ is a prose poem, more or less, narrated by one of my main characters: a deformed reincarnation of Danteâ€™s Beatrice.(2)
AS:Â Why did you choose to write about deformity? Usually, beauty is a more common theme.
GH:Â Exactly. (3)
AS:Â Beatrice is a reoccurring character/guide in the novel. She is typically associated with beauty, but you chose to focus on her deformity. Do you thinkÂ GalerieÂ challenges the reader to question traditional concepts of beauty?
GH:Â If we look at representations of Beatrice across art history (see â€œExhibit Aâ€œ), they appear wildly different in a way that makes me wonder: Are these differencesÂ beautyÂ orÂ deformityÂ in action?(4)
AS:Â How do you go about writing a novel so unlike traditional novels? Was it difficult?
GH:Â In some ways, it was strangely easyâ€”not to say it didnâ€™t involve logistical acrobatics, extreme labor and patience over time, while the â€œbaggy monsterâ€ of the novel slowly (re)generated its form.(5)
AS:Â You have a blog that is a virtual extension of the novel. Why did you create this website and what can readers find there?
GH:Â The website isnâ€™t a blog, per seâ€”more a virtual gallery that documents and suggests how the book grows in and out of itself through collaborative (aesthetic, cultural, social) deformation.(6)
AS:Â You invite everyone and anyone to create their own exhibits on your site and some of those creations (or deformations) have been included in the published book. Why did you decide to open up the novel to outside â€œSubscribers?â€
GH:Â By opening up the project, I as so-called Author(ity) of my book donâ€™t know how it ends, either in form and contentâ€”among other elements, evenÂ thatÂ expected teleology has the capacity to change.(7)
AS:Â What emotions do you hopeÂ GalerieÂ evokes in its readers?
GH:Â Readers will get out of theÂ GalerieÂ as much as they put in.Â (8)
AS:Â Is there any author that inspired you to createÂ Galerie?
GH:Â Many more than those indicated by the 28 printable pages of single-spaced, electronicÂ endnotes.(9)
AS:Â Why do you write?
GH:Â I never intended to be a writer and fell into it as a high school teacher, now thinking that itâ€™s my attemptâ€”in some small wayâ€”to invite (re)perception of our vulnerable, culpable, and capable place in this world.(10)
AS:Â How has writingÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â changed you as a writer?
GH:Â I gave up trying to fit a book inside its inherited box, or body, to let the novel (and other projects) be what each wants to be, engaged and engaging with this moment in time.(11)
AS:Â There seem to be two Gretchen Hendersons. Gretchen Henderson the writer (whose name appears on the cover of the novel) and Gretchen Henderson the character/narrator/Undertaker. Why two Gretchens, and are they really different at all?
GH:Â Yes, they are different: among other aspects, I never was struck by lightning, neither of my grandfathers had a secret family, nor was either a medieval scholar (rather, a mailman and a chemist), and I confess to being an academic (of sorts).(12)
AS:Â The novel is almost like a game, but it has a serious side, too, touching on real-life issues of deformity and self-understanding. How do you want your readers to approach theÂ Galerie, and what do you hope they take away from the experience?
GH:Â Notions of self and authority are constructs as much as the BOOKâ€”all of which have changed across history and will continue to change within and through their (our) deforming bodies.(13)
AS:Â You wrote, â€œBy the time this book is printed, it already will be outdated.â€ What do you think (or hope) lies in store for the future deformation of theÂ Galerie?
GH:Â As more sensibilities and perspectives and media come to bear on â€œdeformityâ€ (and â€œbook,â€ for that matter), I hope the more static definition starts to vibrate and take on a kind of reanimated life.Â (14)
Caroline Picard:Â You have another book,Â On Marvellous Things Heard, that we recently released through my publishing house, The Green Lantern Press. This essay, which you write is a â€œdeformation and reformationâ€ on the traditional, explores the relationship between literature/writing/language and music/silence. Was this essay at all influenced by your work withÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©?
GH:Â The two projects were written more or less simultaneously, albeit separately, so there may be loose links threading in and out of one another, through echo effect.(15)
CP:Â InÂ On Marvellous Things Heard, you again return to the classics, playing off of Aristotleâ€™s book of the same title. Can you talk a little bit about the work you do using old works and characters, and recombining them into new compositions?
GH:Â Itâ€™s being done all the timeâ€”Iâ€™m just making visible (or asking readers to make visible) otherwise invisible traces.(16)
CP:Â OMTHÂ seems to study and expound upon musicâ€™s resistance to language. What was your process like, writing this book, when the tools you had to address your subject were admittedly inadequate from the start?
GH:Â Therein lies a timeworn questionâ€”to arrive back where we started, changedâ€”not unlike sonata structure: exposition, development, recapitulation.(17)
CP:Â Or too, what would musicâ€™s ideal description look like? Do you feel like musical notation is more successful than grammatical text?
GH:Â It depends on the formÂ forÂ the contentâ€”there are different literacies involved with reading language versus music, and it takes time to learn and notate (to write into, to write against) those literaciesâ€”to then suggest the right notation for any given project (disclaimer:Â I donâ€™t believe in a singular ideal).(18)
CP:Â How would you describe the relationship between poetics and music and sound? Do these facets of expression belong in a family?
CP:Â What are you working on now?
GH:Â Ugliness: A Cultural History.(20)
(1) Â Galerie de DifformitÃ©, began as a critical essay exploring aesthetics of deformity in eighteenth-century British visual culture. This was back in Fall 2004. As I wrote and organized my arguments around particular works of artâ€”engaging an era dense with nationalistic enterprises, archaeological excavations of fragments, seeking and fashioning Ur-origins, outgrowths of private into public museums, varied notions of exhibitionâ€”the essay itself began to fragment into a kind of pseudo-exhibition. The final version retained the rhetoric of scholarship, if structured as a collection of curated micro-essays, each of which was prefaced by an image and captioned as it might appear in a museum or catalogue. EntitledÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©,Â that scholarly essay barely resembles the novel that came to be. That said, traces of the original remain in occasional sections titled â€œDeformity asâ€¦â€ (Curiosity, Misrepresentation, Caricature, Sa(l)vage(d), Sublime, etc.), heavily treated through constraints. Once the initial essay was completed, deformed aesthetics kept appearing in other material that I was readingâ€”across literature, art, music, the gamut of disciplinesâ€”and the essayâ€™s intermediate white spaces begged to be expanded through and into fiction and poetry, a kind of chorus, lulling and leading me to c(u)r(e)ate â€œExhibits.â€ The novel just grew from there: suggesting missing parts, characters, narrative strategies, echoes, seams to stitch and loosen and tether together into this â€œbaggy monsterâ€ (to borrow Henry Jamesâ€™ characterization of the Novel).
(2)Â â€œExhibitsâ€ are so-named because they inhabit the largerÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â (as in a museum) and also suggest a kind of evidence (as with exhibits in a legal trial). Adopting alphabetic identities and allegiances, they are labeled â€œAâ€ through â€œZ,â€ also archived thematically. (For instance, â€œExhibit Câ€ treads aroundÂ colorÂ andÂ chronology,Â and also might be classified asÂ contortionÂ orÂ corporealÂ or _______ [fill in the blank]). A reader can bring their own sensibilities to bear on varied possibilities. As prose poems, â€œExhibitsâ€ resist neat summarization. In the book they donâ€™t appear alphabetically sequenced, nor do they congregate together, rather alternate with other genre elements (epistles, definitions, faux scholarship, images, etc.). Some even appear outside the body of the bookâ€”like â€œExhibit Q,â€ which exists only in an endnote, and â€œExhibit E,â€ which translates as a QR code on page 250 (the final page, where the colophon should be) and remains to be written (as a kind of End).
(3)Â Apart from beautyâ€™s overriding positive connotations that often get attention, history has witnessed many cults of beauty where the nature of beauty (footbinding, corsets, etc.) changes. Beauty can be skin-deep, deceptive, even dangerous. Kathleen Marie Higgins writes: â€œ[W]e cannot see beauty as innocent when the sublime splendor of the mushroom cloud accompanies moral evil, that aesthetic appeals congealed Hitlerâ€™s rallies, that beautifully embellished clothes and jewelry currently motivate teenagers to murder.â€ There are many examples that stretch this question into different periods and fields. (For instance, in 2005, it was estimated that Americans spent at least $12.4 billion on cosmetic surgery, which was more than the total gross domestic product for over 100 nations, including Albania and Zimbabwe, totaling over 1 billion people!) Beyond the usual binary that pits deformity against beauty, I am interested in muddying both waters. Deformity is fraught with historical baggage (see footnote 4 below) but also takes on positive connotations in different sociocultural contexts (like the Japanese concept of â€œwabi-sabi,â€ or asÂ Kakuzo OkakuraÂ describes inÂ The Book of TeaÂ a â€œworship of the Imperfect,â€ or as occurs in certain traditions of rug and other weaving, where a pattern is deformed deliberately at a certain point, to allow the soul to move in and out, to leave something unfinished for the imagination to complete, or so the weaver does not compete with a larger creator, or for other reasons). I am interested in deformity as a kind of investigation of these practices and priorities, not to mention the litany of terms that have kept company with deformity across history:Â grotesque, monstrous, ugly, asymmetric, crippled, handicapped, disabled,Â etc. Like Umberto Eco claims, â€œBeauty is, in some ways, boring. Even if its concept changes through the ages, nevertheless a beautiful object must always follow certain rulesâ€¦ Ugliness is unpredictable and offers an infinite range of possibilities. Beauty is finite. Ugliness is infinite, like God.â€
(4)Â Deformity carries historical baggage, seemingly negative and static, but full of kinetic potential: deforming. In process. Within the word itself literally lies formâ€”de(form)ity, dif(form)iteâ€”evolving. Everything deforms around us: seasonal cycles, aging bodies, changes of all types. Beyond that, â€œdeformityâ€ becomes an aesthetic backdoor to the politically fraught term â€œdisabledâ€ and many types of â€œothernessâ€â€”like Aristotleâ€™s claim that â€œthe female as it were a deformed maleâ€ (or, in other translations, â€œa mutilated maleâ€).Â Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â is packed with as many historical notions of deformity as possible, within a choose-your-own-adventure structure where a reader has agency to follow or break rules, calling attention to how we read books, bodies, and our perceptions.
(5) As mentioned in Footnote 1,Â Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â began as a very different project and for many years was a side-side-side project. It took time, too, to grope my way into my own redefinition of the Novel, first studying the long and rich history of that genre, then writing a first novel, wanting to offer homage and invitation through my reinterpretations.Â Rather than write into the too-strict triumvirate of fiction/poetry/nonfiction, I found that source material from different periods (alongside changing notions of genres and of deformity, mixed up by myÂ background in music) encouraged a multifarious and malleable sense of form(s). Major life changes coincided and intervened along the way, some of which could easily have curtailed this project and more.Â I realized that, like life and all else, my novel had the potential to deformâ€”physically, psychically, and otherwiseâ€”even to perform its deformity and be co-created as an aesthetic and sociocultural entity. This has encouraged me to chase down various paths, intellectually and technologically. The project tries to provide multiple access points, so any number of different readers can meet the chimeric creature on their own terms.Â Over a decade of teaching at different levels and in different environments indirectly influenced the interactive nature ofÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©, andÂ Iâ€™ve enjoyed working with the book in different classes to consider its pedagogical dimensions. Future documentation of the project will take on its own life, as the book will retreat into the background, as the larger collaborative deformation will swarm around it: slowly.Â Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â is like a creature that needs to be tended. I am constantly learning from it, as Subscribersâ€™ contributions give me cues about how to tend the projectâ€™s future.Â (By way of example of a collaborative influence: An early Subscriber added his own constraint to the projectâ€™s constraint, choosing to submit four deformations in order to spell out a word (TOMB: see visualized alphabet below). Since his submission was early enough to be considered to illustrate the book, I chose two of his deformations to spell an embedded word back in the published book (OM). His dedicated involvement also encouraged me to go ahead with my plan to build an electronic library of deformity-related collaborative chapbooks, and he became the first guest editor.) Other future stages are planned, but along the way, plans will evolve based on collaborative interactions.
(6)Â The onlineÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â (sharing the novelâ€™s title, since they grow in and out of one another) is a growing installation dedicated to deformity. It includes instructions about how to collaboratively participate. The site hosts â€œExhibitsâ€ as downloaded documents (which were first mounted after they appeared in literary journals, to interface with contemporary print culture): materials that visitors can deform through whatever medium and concept. Deformants have chosen a range of approaches: from erasure and cut-up, to treating â€œExhibitsâ€ as a canvas or freezing text in ice, carved in beeswax and soap, to more conceptual installations and videos, even floated away by balloons. The book is laced with QR (Quick Response) codes that can be scanned with mobile devices like iPhones to link to various parts of the online gallery and offshoots (a short film, an e-volume of archival papers of Ye Ugly Face Club, and other paraphernalia) that will change as more people participate in the communal deformation and bring their own sensibilities to bear on its constraints. Also online is the growing electronic library of collaborative chapbooks, broadly engagingÂ deformity, both in content and form. The book is slowly being unbound, growing in and out of itself, bridging material and virtual realms, calling itself a book, functioning as a book, engaging the vocabulary of the book (i.e.,Â What is a page?): to make visible that this technology-that-is-the-book has a long and rich history and is not at its apocalyptic end.
Â (7)Â I am only one person, and to engage the questions that I wanted to ask, I needed to appeal to and consult many voices, bodies, sensibilities, perspectives, and approaches. Writers, artists, musicians, and other creators never work in a vacuum.Â Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â makes that process visible to work against the notion of Romantic genius, against Author-ity, even as it plays up and into the notion of Authorship. I call myself the author while also postmodernly twisting my authority (including a Gretchen Henderson who is not me), undercutting and duplicating and triplicating questions about my authority, culling sources and source material from across centuries, putting these in conversation with one another, threading my voice through different genres and appropriations, so the narrative(s) occur between genres, between the lines, into margins, beyond the bookâ€”tracing and illuminating reading strategies where the reader is invested with agency and co-creates meaning with the presumed, authoritative â€œoriginal.â€
(8) Whatever a reader wants or needs, I hope they find.Â Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â is many books in one: a book that can be read quickly and superficially, or slowly and deliberately, even over the course of years (given the choose-your-own-adventure and growing paraphernalia that is tethered to the project). Each reading experience should be different, both because the book and the reader are changing.
(9) Where to begin? Where to end?
(10) As John Cage described his motivation for composition: not for self-expression but for self-alteration. â€œHow do we change with the ever-changing world in a compassionate and graceful way? How do engage with a kind of impermanence?â€
(11) How does a writer adequately thank those who help to wing her words into the world? Iâ€™m ever grateful to &NOW and the Madeleine P. Plonsker Prize for supporting this process. To receive logistical and financial support to publish such an interdisciplinary, intergenre, intermedia project is a gift of immeasurable worth. I am especially grateful to Davis Schneiderman at &NOW and Caroline Picard at Green Lantern for advocating for my inclinations, when other editors might have tried to box up and down the work, to make it conform rather than deform, which wouldâ€™ve worked against its organic intent.
(12) In the novel, Gretchen is a construct as much as Bea as much as Gloria: the last of whose name doesnâ€™t double in the book (though admittedly, her surname isnâ€™t entirely unrelated to that of William Hay, an eighteenth-century hunchbacked member of British Parliament, who wrote an essay onÂ DeformityÂ in 1754). The narrators of theÂ GdDÂ exist as a sequence of diminishing mirrors, also reflecting and refracting readers as they get more involved in the labyrinth. But to return to your question: thereâ€™s also a triplicating of Gretchen Henderson, since both the fictional and real author, and Gloria, all share the same initialsâ€”G.H.â€”quadrupled with Clarice Lispectorâ€™sÂ The Passion According to GH, as quoted at the end of the introduction (page 8):Â â€œThis is a book just like any other book. But I would be happy if it were read only by people â€¦ who know that an approachâ€”to anything whatsoeverâ€”must â€¦ traverse even the very opposite of what is being approached â€¦ Over time, the character G.H. came to giveÂ me, for example, a very difficult pleasure; but itÂ isÂ called pleasure.â€Â By including multiplied Gretchens, Iâ€™m not only appropriating a common postmodern construct (see Footnote 7), but also trying to give readers spaces and license to multiply their identities, their selves, and resist whatever classifications they may be hemmed into at this moment in time. (See â€œApplication to be a Subscriber,â€ page 12). Essentially, the novel is about adaptation and change, whether engaging with the history of the novel, talking back to the identity movements of the last half century, taking a kind of Buddhist journey, or _______ [fill-in-the-blank].
(13)Â See Footnotes 8, 9, 10, and 19.
(14) â€œDeformityâ€ has a number of sub-definitions, as I have tried to unpack throughout the novel (see Footnotes 3 and 4, or page 237 of the book, for starters). Because theÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©Â is a perpetual work in progress, partly based in new and evolving technologies, some parts of the story may become formally defunct along the way, unless translated into readable media. Additionally, the collaborative aspect multiples the potential ways this might evolve. What components ultimately remain, what parts mutate, and what else falls by the wayside will be part of the projectâ€™s larger documentation. To speak about one technology: QR codes were barely used when the book was planned, but now you see them on bus advertisements, in libraries, on real estate signs, almost everywhere. I am interested in textual and visual literacies, and how these combine, how technology is shaping our strategies for reading both old and new texts, where and how and why we create, classify, archive, and access literature.
(15) Each developing book suggests multiple possibilities, and my projects constantly cross-fertilize. I canâ€™t work on a single project alone. Many lead to dead ends, but the processes invariably influence varied products. I finishedÂ OMTHÂ beforeÂ GdD, but all of my work has taken a long time to find homes (i.e., publishers). More than theÂ GdD,Â OMTHÂ has more of a relationship with my musically-structured first novel,Â The House Enters the Street,Â which is coming out third in the line-up (in Fall 2012, thanks to Starcherone Books). If it hadnâ€™t been runner-up for the 2005 AWP Award Series in the Novel and received other nods, I might have chalked up that project as part of my learning process and shelved it away in a box. The suspension of a project across years lends an interesting sense of timeâ€”particularly if the book works against chronologyâ€”like a sign I once read in a subway (also quotedÂ in The House Enters the Street): â€œSometimes you have to go backward in order to go forward.â€
(16) Older works, characters, and motifs always lie at our threshold, at edges, beckoning to converse with the present moment, not to be forgotten, providing fodder to dream of alternative futures. In a project likeÂ OMTH,Â there are a number of recombinations of old and new. Aristotleâ€™s essay of the same title refers to â€œmarvelsâ€ more in the vein of Herodotus, so my appropriation of â€œmarvellous things heardâ€ makes a sensory shift into the context of music, sound and silenceâ€”an appropriation also indebted to translations of various types (across languages, eras, cultures, disciplines), needling what gets lost and found in translation. By way of another example: my replacement of â€œsheâ€ for â€œheâ€ in Aristotleâ€™s essay becomes a process of imagined restitution, as a way of talking back to the author who described â€œthe female as it were a deformed maleâ€ (see Footnote 4), shifting the peripheral â€œotherâ€ into the role of protagonist, to ask â€œwhat if?â€â€”in the way that Karen Armstrong describes myth:Â â€œMythology is not an early attempt at history, and does not claim that its tales are objective fact. Like a novel, an opera or a ballet, myth is make-believe; it is a game that transfigures our fragmented, tragic world, and helps us to glimpse new possibilities by asking â€˜what if?â€™â€”a question which has also provoked some of our most important discoveries in philosophy, science and technology.â€ Across time, how many stories share the same plot, retold afresh for each new generation, wolves in sheepâ€™s clothing, or sheep masquerading as wolves? Beyond the story or poem or essay, or intermediate genre, are its building blocksâ€”our living languageâ€”comprised of many languages, changing as we speak and write, malleable, deforming and interacting with other languages within our changing world. Etymological evolution is at work all the time. We live in a moment thatâ€™s rummaging through the scrapheap of history amid unprecedented change, trying to imagine possible futures, trying to figure out how to build into that process meaningful reflection, the art of listening, attention to conscience, and conscientiousness.
(17) Like theÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©,Â whose content took awhile to find its interrelated form, the material withinÂ On Marvellous Things HeardÂ went through varied incarnations: from faux to scholarly essays to a pedagogical collection of music-inspired writing exercises, etc. (The poems that ended up in my cartographic-based chapbook, Wreckage: By Land & By Sea, also went through varied incarnations.) My first attempt to harness the musical material was a faux opera lodged inside my first novel,Â The House Enters the Street. The more that I tried to reduce something three-dimensional to two dimensions, it resisted that attempt, needed to breathe, needed white space, interaction, call and response, counterpoint of voices, where my voice became only one in a larger chorus (cacophonic as that chorus may be).
(18) The content of each project searches for its own form. Notation follows accordingly. Just because I read modern English doesnâ€™t mean I understand Old English, just as someone who can sing from the modern five-staff system doesnâ€™t mean they can make music from medieval neumatic notation (before block notes, essentially appearing as squiggles and dots above and below lines of text, denoting relative pitch and duration: monophonic, not polyphonic). Regardless of what gets lost in translation, traces remain, trails of breadcrumbs to follow, ways to educate ourselves to read backwards (so to speak). There are so many different kinds of literacies across disciplines, languages, historical periods, cultures. What feels generative to me is putting these different literacies in conversation with one another somehow, if only through sensibility, appealing to sounds and senses that shift us both outside and back into our skins.
As aside:Â Iâ€™ve been thinking for a while about a musical notational analogue forÂ On Marvellous Things Heard. If any composer might be interested in collaborating, please contact me.
(20)Â Â More important to me than creative writing is the enterprise of creative living: always a process in progress. Iâ€™m excited about the creative writing courses that Iâ€™m teaching at MIT, engaging interdisciplinary fields like book history and museum studies. But to return toÂ Ugliness: A Cultural History,Â this might be considered another deformation of theÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©, growing out of a subplot involving Ye Ugly Face Club. (My faux introduction for the e-volume of this facetious societyâ€™s archival papers deformed into a scholarly essay delivered at the annual conference for the Association of Art Historians, forthcoming in an art history anthology, now deforming further into a cultural history of UglinessÂ for Reaktion Books.) While exploring ugliness, I will continue tending to the communal deformation of theÂ Galerie de DifformitÃ©. If youâ€™re interested in participating, please visit: http://difformite.wordpress.com. Thank you for reading. In the meantime, please listen to Footnote 19.
I don’t remember the first time I met NoÃ©, but I do remember the first time I saw his work. He and Joseph Clayton Mills performed in a dark room while standing opposite one another. NoÃ© had an accordian strapped to his back and he played, very softly, while Joseph moved closer and farther away. Depending on their distance from one another, something concealed in Joseph’s hand (perhaps a hearing aid?) changed pitch. That performance epitomizes what I’ve seen of NoÃ©’s work. He is dedicated to creating an awareness around silence within a performative space. The manifestation of the body, as a tool for the range of sound is integral, as are the relationships between performative bodies. His ability to instill the necessary parameters for such an awarenes–particularly in collaborative settings–is, to me, remarkable. I wanted to ask him more about that, but felt like direct questions would somehow do away with the very thing I was trying to ask. Consequently I tried to ask around the idea of silence, in order to better understand the way NoÃ© uses sound. Because sound requires space, that seemed a good place to start.
Caroline Picard: How do you think of space?
NoÃ© CuÃ©llar: Space evokes potential, but also communicatesÂ very directly to my sense of placement. Â I think a sense of placement paves the way for the rest of the sensesâ€¦ it’s like a background sense made up by all the senses. I enjoy compound forms even when the individual pieces can still be recognized, in this case, space is the glue.
CP: It sounds like you think of space as something both sculptural (3-d figures) and linguistic (i.e. compound verbs). I appreciate the idea that space would be some experiential amalgam of those fields, even though Iâ€™m not quite sure how that would work. Is that what you mean? What do you mean by compound forms?
NC: Yeah, it’s like our sense of space is happening before we find out how we actually feel.Â I’m in a room now, but a second ago I was just fine without actively thinking how comfortable it is.Â I think of artistic expression as a compound form that always involves more than one thing.
CP: How do you use space as a medium for performance?
NC: The outcomes are quite unexpected when the sense of physical space is combined with the spatial sense of the actual sound. Â I think my work most often expresses rigidity and confines, but space is what can allow [the work] to be experienced with more spread â€“ perhaps more than I would choose to imply in the work itself. Â I would say I focus primarily on sound, but with a sense of belonging in a space.
CP: Iâ€™d love to hear about some examples of how this has occurred in different pieces…
NC: Last year I composed Kilter, a piece for Jeb Bishop (trombone) with accordion, and two speakers inside boxes with hinges that would rattle. Â I had in mind pressure and magnetic repulsion, yet the site-specific performance gave it a more wide-ranging effect, even in a dark, gritty basement with a short ceiling.
I’ve also been working with Joseph Kramer as Coppice, making site-specific installations and site-variable compositions, recently at the Museum of Contemporary Art, where the space was so large we were able to prevent any of our sounds from becoming part of a whole “surround experience,” but remain dislocated and in motion, scattering the perception of their source.
CP: What, to you, is the relationship between the space inside of an instrument and the space around an instrument?
NC: The outside speaks for the inside.
CP: Can you talk a little bit about your collaboration with Joseph Clayton Mills? I was just thinking of the piece where you stood opposite one another and he kept opening and closing his hand, to change the frequency of buzz that magically manifested and grew stronger the closer you moved to one another. Then too, I think of more â€œtraditionalâ€ pieces, where you sit down and perform for a definite period of time…
NC: Working with him is very factual, much in natural state.Â We share a fascination with the attributes of objects and mechanisms, their hidden sound character and emotional effect.Â It makes me think a lot about photography, which we also practice on our own.Â A lot of what we do together is often a simple gesture, “subtlemost” more than “minimalist.”Â I think we both find that simplicity very lasting.
CP: Will you talk a little bit about the way you use silence in your work?
NC: Silence is space but also glue. Â It’s an encouragement that is easy to miss. Â I like using silence as a way of pronouncing presence, or as a bearer of tension, or as a moment to coast on something that just happened. Â Silences can be essentially the same in different moments, but it is how it is accessed that makes it feel different. Â It carries the weight of the three tenses, it can be very prominent in itself, while also reflecting personal inner processes. Â It can even be felt even when sounds are present.
CP: Do you feel like you are interrupting silence? Or are silence and sound variations within the same medium?
NC: My listening is constantly active, therefore I wouldn’t say I interrupt silence with my sound work, but rather bring the sound more forward to emphasize the moment.Â Silence can be framed between those sounds, but in the end I feel like sound and silence are only evocations of a deeper level of silence â€“ and of sound potential â€“ more than what they simply sound like. Â The repercussions of focused listening tap on that depth, beyond the temporal.
CP: I know that you regularly collaborate with other performers as well; sometimes you do so in a more traditional improvisation venue (like The Green Mill, for instance) and at other times you seem to locate yourself more definitively within a contemporary art/performance oeuvre. How do you negotiate those different contexts? Does a venue change the work you do?
NC: Venues shape the work more than they change it.Â What feels right about performances in site-specific and gallery settings is that the audience-performer space is diffused, with more listening nodes available, and open to variation. Â The stage setting has the advantage of centering a performance as a clear message.
CP: Can you talk a little bit about transcription? Or, how you translate and document your temporal, acoustic sound on a static piece of paper?
NC: I’m interested in some precise musical qualities, but also variable, interpersonal, implicit qualities that happen in the process of working one-on-one with a performer.Â Transcription varies from one work to another; sometimes I don’t put anything on paper, or very little just for my own reminder.Â When working with performers I let them write their own parts over a skeleton score I make for them. We talk, try, sharpen, and write.
CP: Do you use that score as a kind of document? I’m thinking about John Cage’s “score’s'” for instance; do they look like that? Or are they more traditional pages of notes?
CP: Can you give me an example?
WithÂ Harrow/Dormant I wanted to figure out what my interpretation of a graphic score would be, and what it would be like to suggest sound from a more abstract visual departure.Â I combined drawings with directions to set a structure on which the performers can stay afloat their own decisions. Julia Miller has been interpreting it with incredible tact several times now, as part of a study for a larger project of hersâ€¦ which is great because multiple iterations reveal how sensitive interpretation is to one’s standpoint.
(SeeÂ this video)
CP: How do you think about sound when it is happening?
NC: Sound is a constant vibration that stimulates our impulse to imagine, stir remembrance of events that perhaps haven’t quite happened to us directly. Â It’s kind of way of keeping check of our experiential ability and our location. Â It’s aÂ way to be present and also to be somewhere else, beyond our windows.
CP: You enact such precision in your work; I’m trying to understand how you think about that precision, and how you locate the “action” of your work in time and space…so somehow, sound becomes the vehicle for that action, right?
NC: I regard presence and intention very highly as a basis. Â In my mind those two things almost make sound all by themselves.
CP: But then what does that mean? For sound to be a vehicle? A vehicle for what?
NC: A vehicle for transportation…
CP: Itâ€™s also really interesting to think about intentionâ€”Iâ€™m not sure I understand what you mean by that…it sounds like youâ€™re thinking of your mind as an auxiliary componentâ€”and extension of the instrument?
NC: My sister is a graphic designer, and browsed many art and design magazines when I was growing up.Â I have many vivid memories of her explaining contemporary artworks to me and she would talk a lot about intention.Â I remember there was an advertisement all white with only one small logo in the middle, and I asked her why they would waste so much space, and she pointed out that the blank space lead our eyes to the logo, that was the focus.Â That got me thinking about doing only what felt like enough.Â Insights like that built up very solidly, and I’m reminded of that particular one quite often.Â The intentional framework for a message.